tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post6071082379534445995..comments2023-10-19T13:55:22.556+01:00Comments on my fascinating life: The Wall: A Map Of Adoption Ethics According to Me (Part One)Claudiahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09352341442556433375noreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-30600462377991381072014-04-06T18:08:31.834+01:002014-04-06T18:08:31.834+01:00To the two posters above, though I don't work ...To the two posters above, though I don't work in the fields of adoption or child protective services, I do work as a social worker and therapist. Social work as a profession began to help poor and vulnerable populations of people, and it is still around because of so many issues in our society as a whole. Re: adoption, this clearly is larger than one group of people benefitting (the CPS system is being called out by both of the posters above). Perhaps adoption wouldn't even have to exist if we were better as a society of making sure people have access to the resources they need. Barriers to resources come from a complex web of institutionalized racism, socio-economic inequities, and lack of educational opportunities. <br /><br />I am not defending the CPS system itself as certainly there are many flaws. CPS jobs are probably some of the most challenging in the field in with exceedingly high case loads, as well as high stakes. But most social workers I know, including myself, entered into the profession with an authentic desire to make a difference. Most of us need to work two jobs in order to make ends meet--even with a masters degree. We are often in jobs with unrealistic demands and expectations, and lack of support in our social system as a whole, to try to help people who need it most. <br /><br />Most social workers go into the profession to help people, not hurt them, and certainly not to keep them mired in a system, for our own benefit. Believe me, social workers struggle to help people through and in spite of these various systems because those systems are what we have to work with. The issue is a systemic and societal one; not just a social services problem.<br /> Amynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-59933170511016186672013-04-24T16:35:32.698+01:002013-04-24T16:35:32.698+01:00Absolutely true. I don't really know how this ...Absolutely true. I don't really know how this works outside the US, but inside the US social services (CPS) absolutely benefits financially in taking kids away from parents. However they don't really benefit from completed adoptions. They benefit by keeping the kids in limbo as long as possible. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01573900907169057680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-7414462919133738472013-04-24T01:56:02.784+01:002013-04-24T01:56:02.784+01:00I'm late to this party but so impressed with t...I'm late to this party but so impressed with the wisdom and grace of this post. Thank you for articulating it so well. Missyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11264845015930907294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-701427167586857272013-04-24T01:52:39.880+01:002013-04-24T01:52:39.880+01:00Linda I am also an adoptee in my 49s, and I bet we...Linda I am also an adoptee in my 49s, and I bet we have opposite opinions on almost everything. <br /><br />To state that ALL adoptees feel the same as you is as ridiculous as saying all black people think a lot. Please cut it out. Missyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11264845015930907294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-66831333505829881902013-04-24T01:49:23.876+01:002013-04-24T01:49:23.876+01:00Because some people simply do not want to parent. ...Because some people simply do not want to parent. That's why there were approximately 100,000 abortions performed worldwide this year. <br /><br />Others cannot follow a basic plan of service (get a job, stay off drugs) in order to parent. This is why we have approximately half a million adoptable children in the US foster system today, and thousands more who have been removed from their parents for neglect.<br /><br />To believe that DNA = good parenting is callow and as narrow minded as believing adoption is always preferable.<br /><br />And not all of us adoptees are traumatized and damaged by adoption. Many of us are doing just fine, thanks. Please don't included in your blanket statements. Missyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11264845015930907294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-36109225170988091962013-04-23T04:33:07.566+01:002013-04-23T04:33:07.566+01:00Love this post. I am an adoptive mom (felt like yo...Love this post. I am an adoptive mom (felt like you were describing me at points) who was not aware of some of these issues happening within our agency until several months after we were home with our kiddos. We would never use this agency again and as we have shared with friends who hope to adopt our experiences and cautions, it has been heartbreaking to see them choose shorter wait time over more reputable/ethical agencies. I can feel guilty. Our once sick, preemie twins (identical GIRLS) whose mother died in childbirth, are now smart, healthy, happy, hilarious and gorgeous. And I feel crazy blessed and thankful...but also guilty and sort of hypocritical, so thankful how things went for us but now asking others to consider other options...<br /><br />Sorry, sort of rambling here. Would welcome your thoughts.Jon y Amyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07939999311260901033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-91124479811681877352013-02-13T13:35:19.053+00:002013-02-13T13:35:19.053+00:00Excellent post!! I hope all PAP will read this! :)...Excellent post!! I hope all PAP will read this! :)<br /><br />Where I see one of the biggest international problems is the orphanages. Many have one foot on each side of the wall.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-2473851615605613572013-02-13T13:28:06.297+00:002013-02-13T13:28:06.297+00:00in response to your comment "adoption should ...in response to your comment "adoption should only occur when there is neglect/abuse. But no one wants THOSE kids. It's much 'cooler' to get one from abroad"<br /><br />Domestic adoptions (in America): 116,432<br />International adoptions: 19,569<br />Almost 100,000 more children were adopted in America by Americans <br />http://msw.usc.edu/mswusc-blog/adoption-infographic/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-12219335800746779082013-02-13T13:21:44.956+00:002013-02-13T13:21:44.956+00:00Truth.Truth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-71912902586070682242013-02-13T13:20:21.574+00:002013-02-13T13:20:21.574+00:00And what should happen in the mean time while refo...And what should happen in the mean time while reform doesn't exist? <br /><br />Your statement "btw, there's no such thing as an ethical adoption severe abuse/neglect aside." is flawed. What about abandonment? What about mothers who simply do not want to parent?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-14202018173369762372011-12-16T18:15:12.714+00:002011-12-16T18:15:12.714+00:00Wow! I found this post from missohkay's blog, ...Wow! I found this post from missohkay's blog, and it totally blew my mind and changed my perspective on what would be expected of me as a PAP, should I ever decide to adopt. Thank you so much. You just made me feel like I don't have to take on all the responsibility for all the ethics of adoption, or for ensuring the best possible outcome for the child. Not that I don't care about those things, just that I knew that I couldn't take responsibility for them, and therefore I thought I couldn't handle being a PAP or AP. Wow! Thanks!Hopehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05614983212919126632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-2727671625879943272011-10-24T21:43:43.325+01:002011-10-24T21:43:43.325+01:00Love, love, love your post. One thing that I think...Love, love, love your post. One thing that I think is missing though, is that most adoptive parents and agencies,are viewing adoption through the lense of western culture, add to that the fact that most adoptive parents are middle or upper class and fairly well educated. To really understand the placing country, you have to have people who really are bi cultural in terms of their knowledge of the country they are dealing with. For many adoptive parents, the adoption trip is their first trip out of their country. They cannot begin to imagine how things operate in other countries and how different cultures view things. Westerners often have no idea of how corruption works in many third world countries and how commen and accepted it is. I find few adoption agencies come to understand the culture they are working with and how hard it will be to find people who are able to understand western ethics. That being said, it does not take a rocket scientist to know that when a tiny country like Guatamala starts producing almost as many young babies for adoption as China does that something is not right.<br /><br />I strongly agree that the "desperate to be a parent syndrome", makes people blind,(I'm guilty) and they then go on to justify the blindness by the poverty etc in the country they adopt from. Forgetting that many people mange to grow up in their families in these countries despite grinding poverty. Its the adoptive westerners perspective, that its better to grow up and get an education (by being adopted), then to grow up poor in your own family with out an education. We justify a lot and we all of us, adoptive parents, need to look deeply at ourselfs, the agencies we work with and not keep our heads stuck in the sand.Sammiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18394690162973974941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-35303665210154876572011-10-24T05:22:38.100+01:002011-10-24T05:22:38.100+01:00Joining the chorus of wows and well dones. Can'...Joining the chorus of wows and well dones. Can't wait for Part 2!Haleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16425646410486288854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-3063701174327897762011-10-24T04:44:28.278+01:002011-10-24T04:44:28.278+01:00Thanks for taking the time to challenge all of us ...Thanks for taking the time to challenge all of us to think. Great post.T and T Livesayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17612227041383997608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-55020739863724903962011-10-23T16:27:08.142+01:002011-10-23T16:27:08.142+01:00"To this American adoptee, adoption should on..."To this American adoptee, adoption should only occur when there is neglect/abuse. But no one wants THOSE kids. It's much "cooler" to get one from abroad"<br /><br />This gave me pause. The children that I advocate for are children with special needs, in a foreign country. Many of these children are living in conditions akin to those from decades past, in institutions by age 5, given two diaper changes a day, never seeing the sun, developing rickets, medicated to keep them quiet. These children die without families. We've lost more kids than I can tell you, due to malnutrition, disease, etc because the conditions are horrible. About half of all kids die within the first year in the institution. <br /><br />Or if they're "lucky" and they only have HIV or a "lesser" disability that does not include a cognitive impairment, they're raised in an orphanage and put out on the streets at 16. <br /><br />What choice do these children have? Adoption truly seems to be their only option. They've been abandoned for conditions that they cannot help.Mollyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15881590483174001768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-4230555390029677432011-10-23T14:43:21.339+01:002011-10-23T14:43:21.339+01:00Lots of really interesting points and questions! I...Lots of really interesting points and questions! I can't respond at length at the moment - but I will as soon as I can, I promise. Anonymous, I wanted to let you know that the best resource I've found for US domestic adoption think-i-ness is the blog 'Production, not Reproduction'. (It comes straight up if you google that; she's also on my blogroll). Heather hosts a regular 'Open Adoption Round Table' where there is always lots and lots to read and think about with input from APs, adoptees and first mothers. I can't think of any similar ethical overview post for domestic adoption, but someone else might know of one!Claudiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09352341442556433375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-66407162248109716492011-10-23T00:58:06.241+01:002011-10-23T00:58:06.241+01:00I like your post, and totally understand where you...I like your post, and totally understand where you are coming with a lot of it, but I think the moral high ground part of the map was just a bit too specfic...not the norm. God calls all Christians to care for orphans, it is something we should do not because we want children, but because we want them to grow up with a family. If a PAP is truly doing it for that reason, I don't think they would care which country they adopt from. I also agree with several of the other posters. I understand your trying to point out the people making the decisions, but I truly think children should be on the side of "benefits" wall. I totally agree a lot of coercion goes on, and adoptions should be done for the right reason. I also agree when at all possible, they should stay with their birth families. But at the end of the day, there are still TONS of birth parents that have either died, are abusive, or simply don't want to parent. Those cases adoption is absolutely neccessary, and here in Canada, adoptive parents don't play much of a role in chosing who they adopt. Adoption Agencies do, we simply say yes or no to a proposal. I understand your talking about "x" and not "y" but I don't think you can talk about one without the other. That being said, still a very thought provoking post.Amandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15036824178599412595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-79845536083737397982011-10-22T22:32:19.711+01:002011-10-22T22:32:19.711+01:00(Insert clapping here)
Well written!(Insert clapping here) <br /><br />Well written!Ranavan https://www.blogger.com/profile/16813747774603866918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-25701907934261783632011-10-21T16:49:33.238+01:002011-10-21T16:49:33.238+01:00As someone in the early stages of researching adop...As someone in the early stages of researching adoption, I adore this post. I'm passionate about educational development for women. I think from the vantage point of international adoption, you are spot on. I hear what people are saying when they suggest we get to a place where adoption is no longer necessary--we should all dream so big. But until then, ethical adoption is and should be a small part of a spectrum of solutions we offer in response to the factors that lead to adoption, including mother-care and whole-community-care. <br /><br />I realize you were not addressing domestic adoption in the US, but this addresses so many of my own concerns about ethical adoption, I thought I'd ask a couple of questions here that shift the conversation a bit. Since many of your readers are in the US, I'm curious--does anyone knows of posts that do this sort of sweeping overview of ethics for domestic adoption? We are looking at both domestic and international, but are passionate about being involved in the life of a birth mother, which seems easiest here in the States or in a country where we speak the language (we're working on that too). <br /><br />Before I've even started this process, here's my sense: The scrapbooks and letters addressed to first mothers are problematic. (I have a very visceral reaction to them.) At the same time, there are some situations in which a mother feels too young or is otherwise uninclined to parent a child and she felt that way before she came across any letters or an agency who coerced her to give up her baby. Say she combines that with not having the family support to raise a child (that should be the first and best option). Many first mothers in the US then make a choice based on our more privileged society: whether to parent the child or terminate the pregnancy. Given that choice, isn't possible that an ethical approach would be to adopt the baby in a close, open adoption? I've seen several situations in which adoptive families become like an aunt and uncle to the birth mother and serve the familial role that might have been taken on had her own family members been willing or able to take in the baby. It seems to me that the options should be 1) the first mother parents the baby with community support<br />2) if she doesn't want to or is unable to parent, someone within her own family should be given the opportunity to parent the child, again with community support<br />THEN<br />3) if those first two don't work out, an adoptive family can step in to parent the child, serving in the role of a surrogate #2 family member, still keeping the child connected to his or her community and family.<br /><br />This is the longest comment ever, but we are beginning the process of choosing an agency in the next week or two and want to make sure we've thought about all of these issues before we get swept up in the official side of adoption. How we answer some of these questions will determine who we work with and how we adopt. Your wisdom and help are certainly appreciated!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-36583214114097808292011-10-21T04:36:48.086+01:002011-10-21T04:36:48.086+01:00Wow. The hills of neutrality. TOTALLY.
Thanks fo...Wow. The hills of neutrality. TOTALLY.<br />Thanks for this post.Tanyanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-65927413919664078082011-10-20T23:41:12.374+01:002011-10-20T23:41:12.374+01:00Ooh, I loved Linda's comment: I completely agr...Ooh, I loved Linda's comment: I completely agree, unless serious abuse all adoptions should be open! No records should be closed, all children should know who their family. YES! I appreciated your disclaimers because lots of your readers are from the US, so you cannot speak to the adoption and foster adoption situations here. Keep going, C.scooping it uphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08801475653537826888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-60791567327632003062011-10-20T16:44:09.410+01:002011-10-20T16:44:09.410+01:00This is excellent. I really enjoyed reading your ...This is excellent. I really enjoyed reading your thought provoking "article." <br />I didn't read through every single comment, but here's my thought:<br />what about those domestic adoptions where the bio mom picks "me" and then sits with me (while pregnant) to discuss my life and what I have to offer her child. Isn't that across the wall you suggest? That happens in many adoptions these days in the states that are not out of foster care. Is that crossing the wall? And if so, are there gray areas?<br />Blessings on you.<br />Very thoughtful post.Debhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16167421890428319786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-3227042019320964332011-10-20T03:34:15.088+01:002011-10-20T03:34:15.088+01:00"mothers make their own decisions about placi..."mothers make their own decisions about placing their own children with no coercion and no manipulation from people who are getting something out of that decision" <br /> <br />Yeah, right. It is an EXTREMELY rare case when there is no coercion or manipulation in adoption. As long as people are willing to adopt (whether because they are infertile or have a savior complex) there is manipulation and coercion- societal, from paps, from social wreckers and from corrupt foreign governments who do not care for their most vulnerable members of society, governments who promote and/or order human trafficking. As long as people pay for children, this will continue. <br /> <br />While it's nice to see an ap hope/wish for "ethical adoption", there really is no such thing. To this American adoptee, adoption should only occur when there is neglect/abuse. But no one wants THOSE kids. It's much "cooler" to get one from abroad, or even better, the brass ring- the child who still reeks of amniotic fluid.<br /> <br />And for the love of all things holy, REMOVE GOD FROM THE EQUATION. It was not in "God's plan" for me to be taken from my natural family. Adoption is a man made creation, a legal procedure born from desperation. People need to stop justifying their excuse for adoption by pulling God into it. It's ridiculous, quite insulting- especially to "most" adoptees, and really destroys a child's idea of God. <br /> <br />And I agree with "ap". Where are the kids on/around/near this wall?? Oh, yeah...they're invisible. Because that's what adoption does- it makes the child invisible. No child wants to be separated from their first families, their cultures, their homelands, their heritage and language. Adoption, "ethical" or not, is about the paps who want a kid, and about the brokers who profit. <br /> <br />I know all about being invisible- my feelings, wants or needs never counted. Ask me about my original birth certificate. It's invisible to me, even at the age of 45, even after being in reunion with my FIRST parents since I was 21 years old. I, like thousands of other adult adoptees in the USA, are victims of state sanctioned discrimination. I cannot leave the USA because I cannot obtain a passport due to new post 9/11 homeland security rules. (an amended bc must be filed within specific dates, and many are/were not) <br /> <br />Part 2 should include this discrimination US adoptees face. There is no need to seal our personal information, our legal records of birth. My ap's did not give birth to me, there is no need to falsify a so-called "legal" document. <br /> <br />Ethical adoption should also include open adoption. Meaning all adoptions should be open- and not just some artsy picture sent once a year. That does NOT benefit an adoptee, it benefits an ap's conscience. Open adoption means the child has REGULAR contact with their first family. Of course, in cases of neglect or abuse, this may not be possible with the first parents- but not everyone in the child's first family neglected them. <br /> <br />There are other ways to serve children both here and abroad without taking them from their families or cultures. There really is nothing altruistic about adoption.Real Daughterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16361127479878590761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-81864350091877062822011-10-19T23:50:38.928+01:002011-10-19T23:50:38.928+01:00I think AP makes some interesting points.
I beli...I think AP makes some interesting points. <br /><br />I believe that often we assume that families have more choices in adoption than they actually have, especially in a system where there are very limited social services and where societal/religious norms can literally make life for women and children impossible.<br /><br />Did that girl chose to become pregnant? Could she have prevented it? Does she have access to birth control? Is she allowed to use it even if she has access to it? Did she want to become a mother?<br /><br />If a woman wants to parent her child but is provided only with physical support (ie- food, shelter, day care), can she successfully raise a child in a socially depraved state? Can any of us parent without social/emotional support? Can we raise healthy kids when we/they are shunned?<br /><br />If a child is orphaned due to disease (such as HIV) and extended family refuses to care for the child, what other options does the child have than adoption (not necessarily IA, but adoption in general)?<br /><br />These are things I am still struggling with... and part of why I do not believe that adoption is only ethical in the case of abuse/neglect. <br /><br />I would like to see societies change, but that takes years (seriously, look at racism in the US to think about how long it would take to really make changes in the societal norms/mores.) In the mean time, how do we best serve children?gracelinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12682893769698129746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2075858460867483977.post-57482645001205512422011-10-19T23:33:37.770+01:002011-10-19T23:33:37.770+01:00Anon, we aren't there yet because people want ...Anon, we aren't there yet because people want to adopt kids. If people spent as much time trying to make adoption unnecessary as they do analyzing the current system, we'd be closer.<br /><br />Semi, I know lots of adoptees and first mothers. Some of my best friends fall into that category (wink). Playful sarcasm intended :)An APnoreply@blogger.com